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An interesting exchange......

on Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:36 pm
Well, I popped down to the Jaguar Specialist the other day and there's a noise coming from the Supercharger (glad it's not the engine). Last night I contacted the car dealer to see what his thoughts are...

"I took the XFR down to my local Jaguar Specialist as there is an intermittent clanking noise coming from the top of the engine (mainly on start up) - they have identified it as the coupling on the supercharger snout. I understand the coupling is spring loaded and this is starting to fail. They break down over a period of time and the noise gets progressively worse and worse. Access to the supercharger requires several workshop hours and a replacement snout assembly is about £500+VAT.

I am assured the car is fine to drive at this stage.

Perhaps you could let me know your thoughts on the issue."


Imagine my annoyance when I received this when I got up this morning!

"Not sure what to say it is a 8 year old car with 86k miles and there will be wear on components to expect. And if you put a car one has just purchased into a specialist they will find some faults etc you had every opportunity to check out car and as your garage said there is no issue at this time, thanks G"

My feeling is that he is shirking his responsibilities under the Sales of Good Act. So I sent him this reply -

"There is clearly a fault - the spring on the coupling has failed / is failing.

With this in mind I would ask you the following -

a. Are you prepared to get the repairs carried out at your expense?
b. Are you prepared to make a contribution (in part or full) to repairs carried out at a local (to me) repairer?

It is clear that the fault was there prior to me collecting the car. The car was sold as being in "A1 condition throughout.” On the basis of this I would not expect the car to need such a large amount spent on a repair."



When I got back home from school I had this message -

"As a jester of good will I will cover half the cost of £500. If your happy with that send copy invoice to me and I will pay half.. regards G."


Interestingly the advert was removed today from Piston Heads, Ebay and Autotrader. I did take the liberty to screen grab from all. Before I bought the car I asked about Warranty and he said it wouldn't be much good on a car over 5 years, but he would offer personal warranty for the first 30 days to cover any major mechanical issues........

My question to you guys is, should I accept his offer and pay out about £600, or should I ask for the full amount as the car is not as described - "A1 condition throughout"?

The annoying thing is that traders assume you don't know your rights.... I think a couple more emails explaining my rights might work; followed by a Small Claim if necessary..

The car is fab, but this just leaves a nasty taste in the mouth....

I should point out that the coupling is not a service item, and I understand failure is not very common. If the spring were to fail the supercharger would stop spinning resulting in little more than a 120 bhp drop in power.
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Re: An interesting exchange......

on Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:15 pm
Who did you buy it from ?? A small independent garage??

My initially feeling is he's kinda right and his offer is very generous - sorry, Dude
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Re: An interesting exchange......

on Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:23 pm
Yes - a small independent. The coupling is not a service part - some have failed and Jaguar have issued a bulletin on the problem. The part is designed for the life of the car / engine.

The car should be -

-be of satisfactory quality (taking into account its age and mileage)
-meet any description given to you when you were buying it (whether in the ad or in discussions prior to sale)
-be fit for purpose (in this case, to get you from A to B safely).

The car was described as being in "A1 order throughout." The onus would be on the trader proving the fault was not present prior to the sale.

Is it worth the fight?

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Re: An interesting exchange......

on Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:45 pm
Hugh,

A dissapointing start to your new car - good luck - but check for any more potential problems on a Jag website!

Any one in the Jag trade who offers as a JESTER is at best illiterate - and at worst a fekin' JOKER.

Cover your arse VERY carefully on this mate - hope you get it all fixed!

VFC

PS - As frequently posted - I have been with a Jag specialist for more than a year - Alan Collins has NEVER tried to gouge me for extra charges - as my mate Sir Alex says - go for thier throats.
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Re: An interesting exchange......

on Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:53 pm
vanfancooler wrote:Hugh,

A dissapointing start to your new car - good luck - but check for any more potential problems on a Jag website!

Any one in the Jag trade who offers as a JESTER is at best illiterate - and at worst a fekin' JOKER.

Cover your arse VERY carefully on this mate - hope you get it all fixed!

VFC

I've checked all common problems on the Jaguar forums. The trader isn't a Jag specialist.

I took lots of advice from my local specialist before buying. My feeling is that he has offered £500 fairly early on. I've not mentioned consumer rights, but I also realise that age is taken into account in possible judgements.

As for the problem, the specialist has come across about 5 cases of the coupling failure. Even the S/charger belts aren't changed until 120k miles, so it's reasonably safe to expect the main S/C drive to last at least that long?
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Re: An interesting exchange......

on Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:03 pm
hugh121 wrote:
vanfancooler wrote:Hugh,

A dissapointing start to your new car - good luck - but check for any more potential problems on a Jag website!

Any one in the Jag trade who offers as a JESTER is at best illiterate - and at worst a fekin' JOKER.

Cover your arse VERY carefully on this mate - hope you get it all fixed!

VFC

I've checked all common problems on the Jaguar forums. The trader isn't a Jag specialist.

I took lots of advice from my local specialist before buying. My feeling is that he has offered £500 fairly early on. I've not mentioned consumer rights, but I also realise that age is taken into account in possible judgements.

As for the problem, the specialist has come across about 5 cases of the coupling failure. Even the S/charger belts aren't changed until 120k miles, so it's reasonably safe to expect the main S/C drive to last at least that long?

Is it worth taking it up with Jaguar directly then?
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Re: An interesting exchange......

on Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:27 pm
Well, I want to work with him to resolve this. At his unit he had some lovely Porsches and a couple of Aston Martins - one of them being stripped down on a ramp. I'm wondering if I could get the new snout cheaper and see if he wants to install it. It bolts onto the front of the engine / supercharger and then a new belt is put on. This would save both of us a fair bit of cash. The labour time is about 5 hours and I have 6 weeks off coming up......

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Re: An interesting exchange......

on Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:53 pm
I think the £500 offer sounds not unreasonable..but my worry is...you have it done...and he just doesn't ever pay it.
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Re: An interesting exchange......

on Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:05 pm
MegaCrixel wrote:I think the £500 offer sounds not unreasonable..but my worry is...you have it done...and he just doesn't ever pay it.

True - then Small Claims Court to recover full amount - screen grabs from internet adverts, copies of his emails etc. One argument about the wear and tear of the coupling is the fact that the drive belt for the Supercharger isn't changed until 120k miles. I have found a pdf for the Jaguar bulletin responding to the problem.
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Re: An interesting exchange......

on Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:31 am
He's offered you £250 to make it go away.

If you want the dealer to cover it you will probably need to take the car back and offer them the chance to fix it themselves. If you don't want them to do that themselves then the small cash offer is probably the best you will get (if indeed you do ever get it!).
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Re: An interesting exchange......

on Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:15 am
It's about a £1000 job all in. He's offered £500 at this stage. I'm researching the issue and found a fair bit of information about the problem part. There are 3rd party fixes that involve a different coupling design and a couple of bearings - ironically the bearings (SKF) are made here in Clevedon! This saves the cost of the replacement supercharger snout. I have found the snout for £370+VAT. Either way the about is about 6 hours.

It seems to be quite a common problem and there is a Jaguar bulletin from May 2014; but as the car is well out of warranty I'm not too optimistic.

I have contacted the dealer to say that I am awaiting a quote from a local specialist. Another alternative (I've not yet suggested it) is for me to supply the snout and for him to fit it. He has full equipment in his unit. He specialises in top end sports cars. The replacement of the snout, once accessed, is a fairly straight forward bolt on job.

Here's a link to an American site. They seem to lead the way with the fixes as there are far more S/C V8s out there!

http://www.superchargersonline.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=57
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Re: An interesting exchange......

on Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:35 pm
Hugh,

When I had a gearbox problem some years ago I phoned/emailed Jag HQ and got some good advice from a lady in Customer Relations.

Always worth a try for a prestige car?

VFC
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Re: An interesting exchange......

on Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:28 pm
Well, I've had the quote for the work and am going to get it done in a couple of weeks once school breaks up.

The work is to be done by my local Jaguar specialist - the guy has also got me thinking..... in his email he says that whilst the Supercharger snout is being changed it would be a good time to change the supercharger pulley. Then a simple remap would take it up to around 600 bhp.... tempting!

I have struggled to "bond" with the car, this morning on an oily/wet road it had a bit of a rear end moment when driving up a hill. It was in standard drive mode and I managed to correct it. Then this evening I took it for a brisk drive (using Dynamic mode) - warm dry roads and loads of grip. I love it now! In second gear the acceleration is mad and the engine note is just right. Think F type, but a little quieter. From 50-70 mph it's a second quicker than a similar aged RS6. Then onto the motorway, back into standard Drive and it all settles down to 30 mpg.

I must take some more photos soon....
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Re: An interesting exchange......

on Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:07 am
Sounds a great combo Huge.

Yet again, the quest for ever more power peeks it's head with the mention of a revised pulley!
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Re: An interesting exchange......

on Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:09 pm
While it's in at Jaguar, get them to go deep into the ECU to see if it may have been clocked Wink

For an item supposed to be good for 120k means it "should" be able to do half as much again....

That's my thoughts on it

Good luck.
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Re: An interesting exchange......

on Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:04 pm
Doo 1 wrote:While it's in at Jaguar, get them to go deep into the ECU to see if it may have been clocked Wink

For an item supposed to be good for 120k means it "should" be able to do half as much again....

That's my thoughts on it

Good luck.

The coupling is quite well known to fail; to the extent that Jaguar released a bulletin on the issue. BUT not quite frequent enough to do a full recall.......

On the bulletin it makes reference to the item "wearing out" - this means most warranties won't pay out on the issue.

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Re: An interesting exchange......

on Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:51 pm
I still think you should call Jaguar and ask for an opinion on your specific car at the current mileage - also go by Andi's advice!

VFC
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Re: An interesting exchange......

on Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:36 pm
vanfancooler wrote:I still think you should call Jaguar and ask for an opinion on your specific car at the current mileage - also go by Andi's advice!

VFC


Shall certainly call Jag. Happy it's not been clocked though!

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Re: An interesting exchange......

on Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:29 pm
Going for a bigger contribution - i.e. 100%......
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Re: An interesting exchange......

on Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:32 pm
I've messaged him, and he's having it back to assess / fix......

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Re: An interesting exchange......

on Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:52 pm
I'm taking the car to Swansea tomorrow for the guy to get sorted, at his expense...... i expect he uses the Jag specialist 200m down the road.....

Then it's in for a service once I have it back with new tyres at the end of next month...

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Re: An interesting exchange......

on Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:07 pm
Hugh,

Interestingly the advert was removed today from Piston Heads, Ebay and Autotrader. I did take the liberty to screen grab from all. Before I bought the car I asked about Warranty and he said it wouldn't be much good on a car over 5 years, but he would offer personal warranty for the first 30 days to cover any major mechanical issues........

From your initial post - my Jag was covered by Warranty Direct until this year - FIFTEEN years or TWELVE after the 3 year Jag warranty - I was very happy with the WD response on the occasions that I had to claim and always felt comforted by the extensive cover provided.

Just a thought when I read your sellers comment about "over 5 years old"...

VFC
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Re: An interesting exchange......

on Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:33 pm
vanfancooler wrote:Hugh,

Interestingly the advert was removed today from Piston Heads, Ebay and Autotrader. I did take the liberty to screen grab from all. Before I bought the car I asked about Warranty and he said it wouldn't be much good on a car over 5 years, but he would offer personal warranty for the first 30 days to cover any major mechanical issues........

From your initial post - my Jag was covered by Warranty Direct until this year - FIFTEEN years or TWELVE after the 3 year Jag warranty - I was very happy with the WD response on the occasions that I had to claim and always felt comforted by the extensive cover provided.

Just a thought when I read your  sellers comment about "over 5 years old"...

VFC

Warranty Direct priced very high. Shall try them again.

I also asked Jag if they might consider contributing - they thought about it and then said NO!!! shame as it's a fairly well documented fault..
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Re: An interesting exchange......

on Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:49 pm
Disappointing!

But you still have the absolute pleasure every time you smell and feel and drive the motor...

VFC
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Re: An interesting exchange......

on Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:25 pm
Very true!

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